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NEVER... PAY (to transfer money as in compensation) |
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL CLICK ON OUR NEW LOGO AND REJOIN US ON MYSPACE |
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This site is maintained by Bon Von Wheelie and the band Girl Trouble for the purpose of giving information and opinion on the topic of paying-to-play. It is our belief that pay-to-play (aka pre-sales) exploits musicians (especially the young and inexperienced) and will inhibit/ruin any developing music scene. No matter where you live, no matter what kind of music you make, this is a practice that affects musicians and fans alike. |
DISCLAIMER: We have been in the same band for 25 years. We’ve been able to play shows in every situation, put out records/CDs, go on tour and meet many cool people. It is our belief that building a strong music/art scene is vital to the success of musicians and that pay-to-play is not only a rip off but counterproductive to sustaining a healthy music community. We further believe that the practice of paying-to-play will ruin important/unique opportunities for the next generation of artists. Our aim is to provide an opinion based on 25 years of experience and facts (based on internet research and accounts from musicians that have directly worked with these companies) about pay-to-play companies currently operating in the US and beyond. These companies have huge websites with many representatives working on every free social networking site available (myspace, facebook, craigslist, etc) in an attempt to trick uninformed musicians into selling tickets for their shows/battles. Since there is no information on this subject other than the fine article by Gary Marshall and Paul McGazz of the UK band Kasino, we felt someone should at least offer an opposing perspective. Again, this is our opinion. It is up to every musician to make their own decision. Good luck to all of you! Keep rockin' and have fun, Bon and Girl Trouble PAY-TO-PLAY: THE DEFINITION FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (including answering our critics) AND ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED READING! |
INFO LINK MENU To learn more about the different companies operating: CLICK ON THE NAME OF THE COMPANY |
| AFTON LIVE / AFTON SHOWS BIG TIME ENTERTAINMENT): Salem Oregon company / straight pay to play shows / U.S. cities |
| AND don't forget to check out NEW AFTON INFO and their AFTON ARTIST RESOURCES site too! |
| EMERGENZA: Granddaddy of Battles/Operates in Europe/ US / Australia |
| MISC. BATTLE COMPANIES: Check out the other battles including GORILLA, Supernova, 1K Entertainment, A Fight For Fame... |
| MISC PAY-TO-PLAY: More companies that charge a lot of money or run local pay-to-play |
| BODOG: Currently not operating, but still a good lesson in pay-to-play battles. |
| PAY-TO-PLAY TOUR: Read this story before you shell out good money to go on tour! |
NUTS AND BOLTS BAND INFO - (on how to play and avoid paying for it) If we've gotten any criticism from doing this website it's normally from new musicians who claim we only list companies that do pay-to-play and never offer anything constructive. After 25 years we've had some experience that may be helpful for new bands. We will include this section of ideas you might find helpful. As we always say, this only our opinion, but it's worked for us and our musician friends who ended up being successful. We offer these articles as "food for thought". |
| SIX STEPS TO STARTING A BAND - and keeping it together. (Help for beginners) |
| PLAYING WITHOUT PAYING - You can get shows on your own! |
| ON THE ROAD - TIPS FOR TOURING (without having to pay for it): The dynamics of touring and how to go about it |
| FEEDBACK - If Afton Live can list their "supporters" so can we (Caution: Lots of cussing!) |
myspace.com/neverpaytoplay2
PLEASE JOIN US ON MYSPACE! Want more info? Want to join others who feel pay-to-play exploits musicians?
Why not join us on MYSPACE? Click on the photo of our professional team of investigative reporters and give us a friend request!
| In music: The transfer of money from an artist to a promoter before playing. The term pay-to-play is used to describe a performance where an artist (primarily applies to musicians) turns in money before taking the stage. This payment can originate either directly from the artist or be collected from the artist through the sale of tickets (aka pre-sale). All or the majority of the collected funds go to an independent promoter or to a pay-to-play club. |
HOW DOES PAY-TO-PLAY WORK? |
| Paying to Play is the practice where independent promotion companies (not affiliated with any specific club) exploits young, inexperienced musicians for their profit. These promoters rent “dead nights” at local clubs to host pay-to-play shows. They typically send flattering spam emails through myspace to new bands notifying them of shows they can play, either straight shows or Battles of the Bands (BOTB). Many of these new bands have barely formed. In order to play these shows, the company requires that the band sell a quota of expensive tickets with all the money being turned over to the representative before showtime (or obligates the band to purchase tickets outright). The band sees a very small percentage, or often times nothing, for all their hard work. The promotion company pays the club rent and takes the biggest profit for themselves with very little effort and no promotion. These pay-to-play companies are acting as unnecessary middlemen. FYI: This practice can also be intiated by the club itself. Any time a band is required to sell tickets, they are paying to play. |
WHY DO PAY-TO-PLAY COMPANIES SEEK YOUNG MUSICIANS? |
| Since older, established musicians will not fall for this practice, these companies primarily target the young, new band who is just starting out. These targeted newcomers don’t realize they are being exploited. We feel that if this practice is allowed to continue it will ruin the scene for the next generation of musicians. Paying to play is an exploitation of musicians that should be discouraged. Please help us spread the word... |
| 1. UNSOLICITED SPAM EMAIL: You typically receive a friendly often flattering email from a company you’ve never heard of, with show dates to choose from, or how to sign up for their Battle of the Bands (BOTB) contest. Their websites are usually professional looking/elaborate. No matter how new your band is, or if you even are a band, they’ll claim they are interested in your music and want to work with you. Typically they don’t even listen to you.
2. THEY CLAIM THEY ARE NOT PAY-TO-PLAY: The pay-to-play company goes out of their way to mention many times over that they are not. No legitimate booking company has to make this claim. These companies are constantly doing damage control on blogs and message boards, trying to defend themselves against unhappy musicians. Always google first to see what other bands are saying on musician forums/blogs (FYI: “glowing praise” on their pay-to-play site does not count). 3. YOU ARE GIVEN TICKETS TO SELL: Whether it’s a requirement to play a show or suggested in order to win a contest, a bands’ role is not to be in charge of pre-ticket sales. Promote the hell out of it, but let the club (or promoter) do the actual ticket selling. You are “the artist” and your role is to put on a good show that people will want to see. 4. YOU HAND MONEY OVER BEFORE YOU PLAY: If you hand any money, no matter where it comes from (your friends, family, your own pockets, the sofa cushions) to a company representative before the show, you are paying to play. The representative keeps a detailed tally of who came to see which band either by asking at the door or counting hands at a BOTB. This is never the way real shows are produced. 5. THE COMPANY TAKES THE BIGGEST CUT: You get none (as in BOTBs) or a small percentage back from the money you turned in. No matter what the situation, the company always takes the biggest cut for themselves. They are acting as unnecessary middlemen. 6. ONLY VERY NEW OR INEXPERIENCED BANDS ARE ON THE BILL: Pay-to-play companies work with inexperienced bands. Notice who’s on the bill (if they can even tell you) and see if it’s anybody you’ve ever heard of. Established bands are hip to this con job and won’t do these shows. In fact, ask any established band what they think of paying-to-play (unless you are profanity sensitive) and see how they view this practice. 7. CRAPPY SHOWS: Too many bands on the bill, a mismatched lineup of acts, too short of time on stage, admission price higher than normal, and an audience that won’t stay for the whole show (or are only interested in the band they came to vote for). 8. BIG PROMISES, BIG PRIZES: If you play this show your band will be on the road to Fame and Fortune. You’ll play in a venue you’ll never get on your own, you will win a chance to do a major tour, play at a major festival, get a million dollar recording contract, receive free recording time at a major studio, have major label A&R reps to evaluate you, etc. The percentage of any of this happening through these shows is remote at best. 9. NO PROMO: The company doesn’t print flyers for the show, there are no special print ads in the local music papers, no mention in the free concert calendar. The only promotion is done by the bands. Only the club might list it on their website and that’s it. BECAUSE... 10. YOU DO ALL THE WORK - THEY GET ALL THE MONEY. And if the show doesn’t turn out well and you complain, you get the blame for not working hard enough, or for being a band that will never make it in this biz. In addition, pay-to-play promoters will always stress what a big favor they do for bands, how much they are sacrificing to help you obtain success, how they too are musicians who’s only unselfish goal is to “help other musicians”. |
WHAT DOES PAYING TO PLAY SAY ABOUT YOUR BAND? |
| These pay-to-play companies will tell you that doing their shows is a way to let people know how hard you can work, that you are a go-getter, that you want to be successful. THAT IS A LIE. In reality, no real hard-working band would ever think of doing a show like this. They know they are a huge waste of time, effort and money...not to mention they’ll do damage to your image. The image your band (or you as a solo act) projects can be as important as the music you play.
So you need to ask yourselves a few questions. For instance, who plays these shows? Aren’t these shows typically filled with beginners and bands who need more practice time? Do your favorite bands ever pay-to-play? Of course not! No legitimate band would ever fall for doing these stinky gigs. They’d never consider selling tickets and handing all the money they collected over to some “company rep”. Older bands view this practice as pathetic. It’s important to consider what your image will be and how people will view you. What does paying to play say about your band? * We’re not good enough to do a real show. Paying to play sends the wrong message. Doing these shows makes a bad impression. Paying-to-play can do more damage than you think! |
AFTER November 12, 2009
If you are looking for the Stay Away from Pay-To-Play myspace site, this is what you will find. No email warning, no explanation of why it's gone (although we have a pretty good idea), just this Invalid Friend ID warning. Isn't it interesting that myspace has hundreds of sites with companies spam emailing bands (often times underage musicians) to play shows but it's us they delete. We are attempting to build up a new site. JOIN US again on MYSPACE. Thanks, Bon and Girl Trouble |
